align type to rule lines

[Boomer the Terrible]

When typing notes in OneNote, is there a way to get the type to line up on
the rule lines? I have tried changing the spacing between lines in a list,
but this is trial and error and still does not line up the type with the rule
lines. Thanks.

[Grant Robertson]

In article <C6D243E1-3981-4C2D-9016-***@microsoft.com>, =?Utf-8?
B?Qm9vbWVyIHRoZSBUZXJyaWJsZQ==?= <Boomer the

Post by Boomer the Terrible
When typing notes in OneNote, is there a way to get the type to line up on
the rule lines? I have tried changing the spacing between lines in a list,
but this is trial and error and still does not line up the type with the rule
lines. Thanks.

There is no specific feature for this that I am aware of. I have found
that you can enter a default font in decimals so maybe you can find the
perfect size and tell us what it is.

I agree, It would be nice if the type lined up with the lines on the
page.

[unknown]

I stumbled on a button that removed the rules from view in ON2007. I was
trying to get two lines of type in the line space by trial and error. Calibri
(sp?) 10 and verdana 10 seemed to do it. ON2007 is on myother machine so
cannot re-try finding this.Sorry!

But now I could turn off the lines until I want to ink/write and need the
guides.

Jonathan

"Grant Robertson" wrote:
<Boomer the Terrible says...

Post by Grant Robertson

Post by Boomer the Terrible
When typing notes in OneNote, is there a way to get the type to line up on
the rule lines?

There is no specific feature for this that I am aware of. I have found
that you can enter a default font in decimals so maybe you can find the
perfect size and tell us what it is.

[T. Wise]

Post by Boomer the Terrible
When typing notes in OneNote, is there a way to get the type to line up on
the rule lines? I have tried changing the spacing between lines in a list,
but this is trial and error and still does not line up the type with the rule
lines. Thanks.

Using Narrow Ruled and 11 pt. Calibri, the type aligns perfectly with the
lines.

[Grant Robertson]

In article <***@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>, ***@yahoo.com
says...

Post by T. Wise
Using Narrow Ruled and 11 pt. Calibri, the type aligns perfectly with the
lines.

I sure wish the calibri font had much more math symbols that I would
actually use.

A) Why aren't all 11 point fonts the same height. What's the point of
haveing point numbers if they aren't consistent?

B) What the heck is up with all the bizzare characters in fonts but few
basic math symbols?

[Rainald Taesler]

Post by Grant Robertson

Post by T. Wise
Using Narrow Ruled and 11 pt. Calibri, the type aligns
perfectly with the lines.

I sure wish the calibri font had much more math symbols that I
would actually use.
A) Why aren't all 11 point fonts the same height.

This is not ON specific at all. This is the same issue throughout in
Windows.

Post by Grant Robertson
What's the point of haveing point numbers if they aren't consistent?

Ask the Font designers <g,d&r>

Honestly speaking: This has to do with basics typography.
"Points" are a scale deriving from the days of lead letters used in
printing.
There are several scales for each font and for font families.
Some run wide (like the Swiss font families like Helvetica [and the
its clone the so-called Arial]), some run narrow like newspaper fonts
(like Times Roman). So a text formatted in Times Roman will contain
app. 20% more characters compared to a text in Arial.
The same with the height. Each font family is different in so far.

You seem to have the old schemes of "matrix printers" (taken over from
typewriters with a fix height of a font) in mind which were the
platform in DOS (although you seem too young to have experienced that
<bg>).

This changed totally once the techniques of computer printing changed
and Rank Xerox (the developers later founded Adobe) developed the
first Laser Printer (the Apple Laser Writer) and PostScript as the
printing definition language. They took the standards from the
printing industry, inc. the unit points. And lots of fonts developed
(initially in PostScript and later in the TrueType format) were taken
over exactly with the specifications from typography (would not only
have been a problem with copyright otherwise).

Fonts have had different height and need different line-spacing since
fonts exists - since the days of Gutenberg <g>.

And OneNote has no specific issues in so far. It's just Windows.

Post by Grant Robertson
B) What the heck is up with all the bizzare characters in fonts
but few basic math symbols?

Same as above. Ask the type foundries <g&d>.

This is not ON related too.
It's just a question how creative fonts designers are and how big they
estimate the need for technical and mathematical characters. And its a
question of mapping characters to the font tables (numbers ASCII /
ANSI / Unicode).

Rainald

[Grant Robertson]

In article <***@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl>, ***@gmx.de
says...

Post by Rainald Taesler
This is not ON specific at all. This is the same issue throughout in
Windows.

I know, I was asking a general question based on the topic of the thread.

Post by Rainald Taesler

Post by Grant Robertson
What's the point of haveing point numbers if they aren't consistent?

Ask the Font designers <g,d&r>

Are you saying that they don't stick to the standards or that there are
no standards. Could I make a 12 point font that was actually 1/2 inch
tall when printed (with no scaling) and have that be ligitimate?

Post by Rainald Taesler
Honestly speaking: This has to do with basics typography.
"Points" are a scale deriving from the days of lead letters used in
printing.
There are several scales for each font and for font families.
Some run wide (like the Swiss font families like Helvetica [and the
its clone the so-called Arial]), some run narrow like newspaper fonts
(like Times Roman). So a text formatted in Times Roman will contain
app. 20% more characters compared to a text in Arial.
The same with the height. Each font family is different in so far.

I thought there were 72 points per inch and that was it. I didn't think
font designers were allowed to just change the measurement scales at
will.

Post by Rainald Taesler
You seem to have the old schemes of "matrix printers" (taken over from
typewriters with a fix height of a font) in mind which were the
platform in DOS (although you seem too young to have experienced that
<bg>).

Older and way more experienced than you think. So by "old schemes" do yu
mean schemes where font designers stuck to a standard so that people
could actually know what to expect from their fonts? And now the "new
scheme" is where everyone is afraid to complain about anything and
artists are allowed to be completely sloppy and careless in how they
design their fonts with complete disregard for how that will affect their
useability and everyone just has to get used to it even if that means
completely redesigning publications because the commercial printing house
does not have a particular font and the supposed specifications for the
font used are completely imaginary and the actual specifications don't
match any other font in the known universe?

Post by Rainald Taesler
Fonts have had different height and need different line-spacing since
fonts exists - since the days of Gutenberg <g>.

Yes, but those different heights and line spacings were given different
numbers and the same numbers meant the same things. In the "days of
Gutenberg" (probably somewhat after) they had to be able to exchange
fonts and have them fit in the trays properly. If you manufactured a set
of type and said it was 12 point when it was actually 13 then it wouldn't
fit in the trays designed for other 12 point fonts. Typesetters would
have either measured the type and relabled the font or would have sent
the whole set back as incorrectly manufactured.

Post by Rainald Taesler

Post by Grant Robertson
B) What the heck is up with all the bizzare characters in fonts
but few basic math symbols?

Same as above. Ask the type foundries <g&d>.
This is not ON related too.
It's just a question how creative fonts designers are and how big they
estimate the need for technical and mathematical characters. And its a
question of mapping characters to the font tables (numbers ASCII /
ANSI / Unicode).

It's a good thing archetects aren't allowed to be "creative" in that way.
I would hate to buy a house with "standard" 36" doorways only to discover
that my 32" washing machine would not fith through because the architect
and builder were "creative" in what they called 36"

I know this is a bit off topic for OneNote and that the problem is
endemic (or is that epidemic?) in all of Windows. But it affects me the
most in OneNote so that is why I am talking about it here.

OneNote is the one place where I am trying to keep all of my notes. Go
figure... But it gets extremely difficult because many of the things I
need to take notes about require special symbols many of which are only
available in separate fonts.

Back to the original topic of this thread. It would be much better and
make OneNote pages much easier to read with mixed text and handwriting if
they could find a way to get the fonts to match up with the rule lines.
In the end I find I have to turn off the rule lines except for when I am
writing in handwriting.

[Rainald Taesler]

Post by Grant Robertson

Post by Rainald Taesler
This is not ON specific at all. This is the same issue
throughout in Windows.

I know, I was asking a general question based on the topic of
the thread.

Yeah. And we will be getting TOT continuing <g>

Post by Grant Robertson

Post by Rainald Taesler

What's the point of having point numbers if they aren't
consistent?

Ask the Font designers <g,d&r>

Are you saying that they don't stick to the standards or that
there are no standards.

Neither, nor.
The stick to the standards but the design the fonts differently.

Post by Grant Robertson
Could I make a 12 point font that was actually 1/2 inch
tall when printed (with no scaling) and have that be
ligitimate?

No.
A 12 point font is a 12 point font.
The characters only look different.
The height of the lines is the same.
Just make a line with (a) Times Roman, (b) Verdana and (c) Calibri
(the latter obviously being a completely new font designed to look not
too big.

[...]

Post by Grant Robertson

Post by Rainald Taesler
The same with the height. Each font family is different in so
far.

I thought there were 72 points per inch and that was it. I
didn't think font designers were allowed to just change the
measurement scales at will.

They are not doing this.

[...]

Post by Grant Robertson
And now the "new scheme" is where everyone is
afraid to complain about anything and artists are allowed to be
completely sloppy and careless in how they design their fonts
with complete disregard for how that will affect their
useability and everyone just has to get used to it even if that
means completely redesigning publications because the commercial
printing house does not have a particular font and the supposed
specifications for the font used are completely imaginary and
the actual specifications don't match any other font in the
known universe?

No.
The computer printers as well as the Linotypes use the fonts the way
they are designed. And 12 points are 12 points.

Post by Grant Robertson

Post by Rainald Taesler
Fonts have had different height and need different line-spacing
since fonts exists - since the days of Gutenberg <g>.

Yes, but those different heights and line spacings were given
different numbers and the same numbers meant the same things.

Right.

Post by Grant Robertson
In the "days of Gutenberg" (probably somewhat after) they had
to be able to exchange fonts and have them fit in the trays
properly. If you manufactured a set of type and said it was
12 point when it was actually 13 then it wouldn't fit in the
trays designed for other 12 point fonts.

Exactly.
An the pieces of lead having the characters on them had the same
height - regardless how the letter itself was.

Post by Grant Robertson
Typesetters would have either measured the type and relabled
the font or would have sent the whole set back as incorrectly
manufactured.

Things have not changed in so far.
Verdana and Times Roman and Calibri in 12 points only use the same
space for the lines. Just the visual appearance is different.

Post by Grant Robertson
It's a good thing archetects aren't allowed to be "creative" in
that way. I would hate to buy a house with "standard" 36"
doorways only to discover that my 32" washing machine would not
fith through because the architect and builder were "creative"
in what they called 36"

LOL
But font designers keep to the measurements.

Post by Grant Robertson
I know this is a bit off topic for OneNote and that the problem
is endemic (or is that epidemic?)

LOL

Post by Grant Robertson
in all of Windows. But it affects me the most in OneNote
so that is why I am talking about it here.
Back to the original topic of this thread. It would be much
better and make OneNote pages much easier to read with mixed
text and handwriting if they could find a way to get the fonts
to match up with the rule lines.

AFAICS the problem lies not in the *fonts*.
It lies in the rule lines.

They require fonts which look as if they had a lower height although
they are 12 points high.
AFAICS Calibri might have been designed especially for having
characters looking small enough to fit in between the lines.

Post by Grant Robertson
In the end I find I have to turn off the rule lines except
for when I am writing in handwriting.

Yes, that's the logical result.
But I think that there will be no solution except other fonts which
don't show that high that the rule lines don't fit in between.

Rainald

[Grant Robertson]

In article <***@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl>, ***@gmx.de
says...

Post by Rainald Taesler
Things have not changed in so far.
Verdana and Times Roman and Calibri in 12 points only use the same
space for the lines. Just the visual appearance is different.

Well, I wish this were true. I have tried different font names with the
same font number and they seemed to use up different amounts of vertical
space per line. I would make ten lines and one font would have a
different total height for all ten lines than another font name with the
same number. I will have to do more experiments but I don't have time
now.

[Rainald Taesler]

Post by Grant Robertson

Post by Rainald Taesler
Things have not changed in so far.
Verdana and Times Roman and Calibri in 12 points only use the
same space for the lines. Just the visual appearance is
different.

Well, I wish this were true. I have tried different font names
with the same font number and they seemed to use up different
amounts of vertical space per line. I would make ten lines and
one font would have a different total height for all ten lines
than another font name with the same number. I will have to do
more experiments but I don't have time now.

Thanks for the reply. Pls kep us posted on your results.

Rainald